This is a long overdue followup to my post about Threat Generation. I said I was going to talk about tanking multiple targets but I just haven't found the chance to really get into it. Tanking multiple targets is one of the hardest thing a warrior have to do. But if everything goes smoothly, it can be the most enjoyable part of tanking.
So how do I tank multiple targets? Do I follow the normal threat generation cycle I specified on my 1st post? Well the answer is no. Tanking multiple targets require very good coordination with your party. It is hard to talk about tanking multiple targets because it varies in different situations.
Does your party have any crowd control abilities? How many?
What type of mobs are you facing? Are they immune?
Do you have good dps in your party? Can they take down mobs fast?
As you can see I have pointed out some of the different things to consider when you and your party is looking to take down multiple mobs.
Tanking multiple targets boils down to coordinating a KILL ORDER. Deciding on a kill order means that all dpser will be focusing on 1 target at a single time maximizing your party's dps to kill a mob fast. This would mean that you will have to generate as much threat as possible in a short amount of time to hold the 1st target in place.
For the purpose of this post, lets consider we are about to pull 5 mobs. Hopefully 2 will be crowd controlled (mage sheep, priest shackle/mc , rogues sap, hunter trap and warlocks seduce are the most obvious ones). This would leave us with 3 targets to tank. Now, you really wouldn't want to target 3 target at the same time right? I know I wouldn't want to.
Ideally we want to CC mobs that have high hp or mobs that does something special like heal, fear, mc or insane amount of dps. This would leave us with the following types of mob:
0. Pet Type/Not Elite Mob - sometimes you get a pet add or non elites, this type of mob needs to go down first and I will usually assign it to our top dps'er. Shouldn't worry about tanking this target if your dps'er is good enough.
1. Squishy/Caster Type Mob who dies easily should be the 1st kill. This is where Improved Shield Bash is useful. Shield bashing will silence the caster and at the same time interupt spells they are casting and give you enough time for your dps'er to kill the target before they deal any serious harm to the party. If your party is good enough, shield bash quickly switch to the 2nd target.
2. Melee Type Mob who doesn't hit that hard
3. Melee Type Mob who hits hard or has high hp
As as tank, you will have to try to seperate this 2 mob into a group. While your party is trying to take down the squishy type caster, it is your chance Thunderclap the 2 mobs. Thunderclapping the 2 mobs needs to be executed with extreme care. You don't want to thunderclap and break CC. This is why positioning is another important factor in tanking multiple mobs.
Thunderclap - Both Target
Shield Slam/Revenge - 1st Target
Sunder 2nd Target
Repeat Cycle by going back and forth between the 2 targets
Save Taunt for emergency use. Do not use taunt unless a dps'er or healer pulled aggro from mobs that breaks away from CC or mobs that breaks away due to lack of threat.
Save Concussion Blow also on emergency use. Or you will want to use it to stun and hold the 3rd target while you build aggro on 2nd target.
3 days ago
10 comments:
One trick that really really helps with this:
Use your "focus". Set up a bunch of macros beforehand to do stuff to your focus (examples below).
Set focus (to the selected target):
/set focus=target
Use Sunder on the focus:
/cast [target=focus] Sunder Armor
I also have macros for Shield Slam and Shield Bash (to interrupt spells).
Using these, you just hit the macros to hold the 2nd guy, and you don't have to switch targetting, ever (until the first guy is dead, anyway). Much, much simpler.
- Jabari
I've never thought of starting up with a TC to build up threat with the second target. Usually I sunder 1st, sunder second, and then start TCing and switching
Is TC enough to at least prevent heal aggro? Never tried it, but it would be a good strategy that I have to try
As for Jabari, you just made me /bonk myself. I always have trouble with switching between the 2 targets because I'm so sloppy with the mouse and sometimes Tab targeting messes up (the double robot pull after Curator comes to mind), so Focus and Macro it's just somethign that brought me to the light! Thanks!
My tricks for keeping multiple mobs occupied are Demoralizing Shout (I usually try to hit the CCed mobs with it as well so that I have some initial threat built up for when it's time to set them loose) and Cleave. I'll use Thunderclap as well, but I try not to get too involved in switching targets to apply sunder armor.
But very nice idea about setting a focus target macro, Jabari! I have some macros that make use of that feature for my healer, but I hadn't yet seen a way to use it as a warrior. I'll definitely have to try this out!
My trick of tanking 2 mobs (which I dont think is really 'aoe tanking' - real aoe tanking (5+ mobs) is something for a paladin - is to first build some quick aggro on the second target, throwing a quick taunt on the main target. Then after 4 secs, concussion blow the first target, back to building threat to the second target, and when concussion blow comes off taunt again (I have improved taunt, so this comes together neatly) then proceed building threat on the main target.
For three mobs I use the same tactic, glueing target 2 and 3 to me while I use taunt/conc/taunt to keep the mob on me. With 5 you could try taunt/conc/taunt/mocking blow/taunt and have about 20 seconds of building up aggro on 4 mobs. That should give enough time to have enough threat so the healer doesnt get ganked.
Tanking two mobs, especially with those focus macros is a breeze. Three can still get messy for me and while the macro should help with having to only do two, I've found it hard telling which one was the focused one and which wasn't sometimes. Four is something I'm pretty sure I cannot successfully tank at the sametime.
Of course it's all highly dependent on the rest of the group too. If they go full dps right from the start (especially with 3-4 mobs to tank) it gets very, very hard because you need to focus on the primary target and find some way to also do something to the others for the healer not to get aggro.
Add people attacking on wrong targets and not having a fully established kill-order and you're going to be intervening & taunting a lot..
I'd like to see a more detailed article/discussion on this topic still. Personally I feel like I have a lot to improve.
I cant quite agree with u "ttsgosadow". Using Concussion Blow and Mocking Blow at the very start of a fight is a bad idea.
First has 45sec cd, while second has 2 min cd.
Those skills should be saved for emergency. So should taunt.
It is extremely important to have them ready when u do heroic.
Getting back to topic
Most of u are discussing "how to tank two mobs". Hmmm two mobs are piece'o'cake to tank. One or two sunders on main target, so u dont loose its attention, 2 sunders on second mob. Then go back to main target. That way sec mob is glued to u almost whole fight. If mobs are tough and fight takes too long u may need to switch targets to sunder second mob again. Ofc TC and DS also help u to keep mobs on u.
However tanking more mobs is quite challenging. The most important thing is to state ur rules before fight: marks vs cc, killing order.
Usually I use marks only for cc. I define killing order during a fight by setting Skull on a target.
Why? If u have 3 mobs it is easy for ppl to remember skull>triangle>cross. However when u have 5 mobs, like it is sometimes in Shattered Halls, noone will remember it. So I just put skull and all ppl stick to it. Noone said a bad word so far :P
U say: Ok. Marking is important but easy thing. How the hell keep 5 mobs on me so they wont go on healer or other party member?
Hmmm that's rly tough task.
Dont even try to sunder mobs one by one. It takes too much time and before u get to 3rd mob, 4th and 5th get loose. U need to aoe them. I do it with TC and DS. Especially TC since it is much better threatmaker. I use it whenever it is available. It is good to have at least one talent in Improved TC coz the more dmg TC does the more mobs hate u. There is one more skill I use sometimes: War stomp (as Im Tauren :P). It helps me to keep all mobs which resisted TC in one place. By the time WS expires TC is rdy to reapply :)
Then we just kill mob by mob.
Ofc much depends on ur party. If they wont follow tank's rules you wont succeed as tank even if u were god.
That's more or less my idea for tanking multiple mobs.
My question is how to tank 2 or 3 mobs in heroic?
U cant tank more coz healer cant heal u, unless u are really good geare but it still would be difficult.
I tried 4 or 5 heroics so far and I have noticed that it is much harder to build aggro. Sunder isnt so efficient anymore as it was in normal mode. TC doesnt work at all. So how to tank?
Rgds
Dojna
@Dojna
You are correct. Sundering is not that effective unless you have the time to use it several times. TC works but you have to apply it around 2 times. It is definitely much harder to build aggro in heroics.
BUT, what I end up doing is tanking 2 at once. I did heroic sethek halls without a priest and I can tank 2 at once without no problems. The most I have tanked in heroics is in shattered halls, 4 mobs (2 non elites) in one of the 7 mob pull. Believe me or not it was easier to tank 4 and TC my way than to try to cc or do anything with it.
With 2 mobs - concussion blow helps alot. I usually stun the 2nd target. try to build aggro as much as possible on the 1st target and move to the 2nd target.
I am not sure how i would handle 3 mobs but probably use TC to get the attention of everyone. But again concussion blow helps cause it buys you time to build aggro.
Big Bear Butt has a nice macro for spamming Lacerate (bigbearbutt.blogspot.com) that I've changed to be able to mouseover + press 'c' to place a Sunder Armor on a mob.
By doing this, I can stay on the first mob with my autohits and place Sunders on the rest by mousing over them. It takes a bit of practice, but tanking 3, 4, or 5 mobs becomes much easier with this macro. Add in a Thunderclap or two and everyone hates me!!
I have to say this is one of the best Prot Warrior Blogs I have seen and I have really learned a lot and havent finished reading all the info you have. I am new to the tanking side (Moolie, 61 Prot, Tauren) of the house since all my previous toons have been DPS classes, (mage, lock, and shadow priest) so what this is extremely valuable to me. I have a lot of endgame experience on the DPS side but I have found that tanking is a whole new realm that I really enjoy.
Ok with that said I see a lot of talk about the term "Focus". I have never used it and do not know much about it. I would guess it is to set a primary target for macro's to reorient after a target change. I would really appreciate an explanation of how this works. Thanks again
Tuuek
The very easiest way, in my opinion, is this.
First and foremost, kill order, cc. Try to get your CC to CC the mobs away from you, because if you have sheep walking all over you, you're screwed and you will have to move the mobs.
Start cycle with a shield slam on second target, then switch target for a revenge on main target. Then thunder clap. This should easily leave you with enough threat on the second mob, to focus on the main for a few seconds. Use another devastate, then follow up with shield slam and revenge. Then thunder clap, then devastate on the main mob. So it's a normal threat rotation, except instead of Sheild Slam, Revenge, Deva x2, it's Shield Slam, Revenge, Thunder clap, Devastate, repeat.
When you have spare rage, cleave to make threat as sticky as possible. For this to work you need to spec improved thunder clap (Worth it! Both for the 10% less attack speed, the lower rage cost and the increased damage). Unless someone is doing something wrong, this should keep them in place.
Another thing that is good, is to use mocking blow aggressively. You might think of it as a secondary taunt. I don't. Learn to use your cooldowns aggresively (last stand, shield wall, conc blow, mocking blow, challening shout). Try this: Charge the first mob, mocking blow him (this makes him attack you for 6 seconds, regardless). Turn to the other mob, Shield slam, Revenge, Devastate. By this time, the first mob should be loose. Turn to him, taunt him. If fail, conc blow him. Follow up by shield slam, revenge and your threat is as sticky as always!
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